David Rogers: A Bitter, Bitter Man

Over at Groundhog Day, David Rogers demonstrates that he is pretty bitter. He lumps me together with Clay Shirky and Doc Searls (which I am ok with) as fringe lunatic types who seem to think that the Internet can do good things. Yes, I think so.

[from Competing Messages: What Matters?]

[editorial: Apparently Doc called David up and asked if he wanted to work on Vendor Relationship Management, which sparked his screed.]

I pretty much can't stand the internet anymore. At least, the things it seems to be doing to people, or the way it causes people to think.

The beret-wearing, continuous partial attention blowhard, Stowe Boyd, embraces Marshall McLuhan's view that we make our tools and then our tools shape us. And I think that's true. But like all visionaries and advocates who try to sell their expertise and insight to those discerning enough to recognize the clarity of their vision and the keenness of their insight, they never think past the end of their nose.

[It's a cap on backwards, not a beret.]

We created the automobile, and the automobile changed our culture and civilization far more than one might have anticipated from such a simple artifact. Where were the advocates who foretold the rise of suburbs, the traffic jam, carbon emissions, forty to fifty thousand deaths every year? Where were the visionaries who offered the insight into the changes in our architecture, or the stress of a daily two-hour commute?

And all those things are, of course, merely peripheral changes. Changes to how we do things, not what we do. But, of course, many people seem to believe that how we do things is "everything." As in, "This changes everything." (Pant, pant.) Or "the world." Did the automobile "change the world?" I'm not so sure.

[Um... David... I am not advocating an automobile-based society. Oh, I guess it's some kind of analogy. But could you please thread it together for me? I am suggesting that exactly the sort of thing you talk about happens. For example, the rise of cell phones has changed social relations. There is good and bad involved, depending on your viewpoint.]

Then there's that internet sage, Clay Shirky, with his pithy analysis of the criticism of the whole "Web 2.0" phenomenon - "Old Revolutions, Good; New Revolutions, Bad" with his illuminating insight that, "This improved ability to find both content and people is one of the core virtues of our age." One wonders how much of a "virtuous" age ours may be, when "finding content and people" is considered a virtue. Shirky also illuminated the "virtues" of youth in another piece, because "old" people have "cemented past experience into knowledge." Thus, old people have cement in their heads. Must be why we "nod off" so often.

[Um... David... what's wrong with finding content and people? You lost me. And, the fact that youth has virtues does not mean that being old is bad.]

The thing about Boyd and Shirky is that they're competitors in an economic environment. The new and the novel is their raw material, and they produce "analysis" that "explains" the new and the novel to "the rest of us." Naturally, to make the new and the novel more appealing, better able to seize and hold your attention, it has to be "good," maybe even "virtuous." So competition distorts how some choose to perceive change.

Of course, change is inevitable, and maybe it's neither good nor bad, or perhaps it's almost certainly both. But if someone speaks up and criticizes the visionaries and their products, well then they're labeled trolls, and thus, not to be taken seriously. They're harshing our buzz, man.

[I missed the slight of hand where Clay and I become competitors. I have always thought of Clay as a collaborator in a very loose sense: we are often talking about the same things in a similar way. He made 'social software' a well understood concept; and in 1999 I introduced the term 'social tools' -- we have been pushing at similar ideas. But I don't view it as a competition, and I doubt he does either.

Nor do I think that I am explaining to the 'rest of us' -- I am involved in a line of public inquiry, and the interaction I have with the community involved in that discussion is the single most important source of insight and inspiraiton I have encountered.

But I agree with you about trolls. There are people out there who are the enemies of the future (as Virginia Postrel styled it in her book of the same name), and they need to be outed whenever possible.]

Competition. We live in a competitive environment. I think it's a consequence of the law of natural selection. Various groups of our species compete in different ways. Most seem to be competing economically, in the commercial sphere. Others are competing in the political sphere. Although violence plays a role in both spheres. We can't seem to escape from competition. It's in our genes.

Doc wondered if I might be willing to help or contribute somehow to the conversation about vendor relationship management. I told him I was skeptical. I think anything that facilitates commercial interactions, does so at the expense of social ones. It's not that I regard all companies as "evil," though most of them are far from "virtuous." As I explained to him, even if all companies were "good," they still must compete with one another for our time and attention. And the universe of competing commercial entities seems to grow without limit; and they are all learning organisms, so they adapt to changes in their environment, and exploit anything that can give them a commercial advantage.

I've explained here many times, and did so again to Doc in conversation, that the notion of "authority" is an important one, one that requires a clear understanding. But because we live in a competitive, increasingly commercial society, important ideas are exploited and distorted to try and achieve a competitive advantage. I again pointed to Technorati as an example, and their claim to being "the recognized authority" on something, while simultaneously - and on a totally different page - disclaiming any responsibility for relying on that "authority." It totally guts the notion of authority, all for the sake of Technorati looking a little more competitive.

We should all be offended, but we aren't. We say, "It's just marketing."

And then we market ourselves into unnecessary wars, and we wonder how we got here.

None of this VRM, or Web 2.0 bullshit is important. It's all crap. You and I have a certain amount of time here in this life. "Changing the world," isn't why we're here. That's just a line of shit they feed you, so that your time and attention and energy are devoted to serving the needs of the competing entities. We aren't consumers, we are the consumed.

I don't believe that wanting to change the world means capitulating to commercial interests. I don't believe that its a line of shit we are being fed, or that I am creating a line of shit when I advocate social applications or other Web 2.0 advances.

Everyone has to decide what is important for themselves, David. Of course, authoritative voices like Doc, Clay, and, yes, me might point the way to certain technologies or tools that we believe are positive, that enlarge life or make it more rich. And I believe your mean-spirited attack on the revolution we are involved in puts you into the category of troll for me.

tags: david+rogers, web+2.0, clay+shirky, doc+searls, never+feed+the+trolls, virginia+postrel, the+future+and+its+enemies, social+tools, its+not+a+beret+its+a+cap+on+backwards

Comments

[Ethan]

"And I believe your mean-spirited attack on the revolution we are involved in puts you into the category of troll for me."

Not to speak for anyone, but I don't rightly think he gives a [darn].

Speaking for myself, if Dave Rogers' screed qualifies as "mean spirited" I'd say you're living a pretty rosy existence. Personally, I have found you to be pretty huffy whenever someone speaks ill of "social" anything. I grok that its your bread and butter, but its not beyond reproach.

I defer to Dave Rogers to respond or ignore you as he may.

[Rogers Cadenhead]

"I am not advocating an automobile-based society. Oh, I guess it's some kind of analogy. But could you please thread it together for me?"

His analogy was simple. Excessive optimism greets every new technology, whether or not it's actually good for the world, because you can't sell people stuff with cautious skepticism.

I get excited every time disposable razors add another blade. I hope I live to see the day that a 10-blade razor gives me the truly clean, close shave I deserve.

[Zbigniew Lukasiak]

Hey Stowe - don't be so stubborn - buy eventually a beret.

[Stowe Boyd]

Ethan - The man calls me a blowhard without substantiating it. Definitely in the troll zone.

Rogers - But it's an oversimplification. Advocating some new technologies does not mean you advocate all of them. And the negatives from some can't be used to argue against all. It's just a logical fallacy.

Z - I guess you are right.

[jeneane]

Stowe, Having partial -- let's call it de-centralized -- attention, and blowing hard, are nothing in particular to be ashamed of. Good peripheral vision and a widely placed attention span might save you from being hit by a car, for example.

MY ISSUE with Dave's post was that he screwed someon (namely Doc) who called up offering some work. It's evident by his follow-on post that he was gaming you both with the initial post.

The thing that bugged me about this whole three-way interchange was NOT anyone calling anyone else names (goddam about time we get back to that!!!); it was one guy spitting in the face of another guy who called up offering dibs on some work.

That just won't stand. Pass it down the food chain, Dave.

--

[kathleen]

Oh, I'm so GLAD to know it's a cap-on-backward and not a beret!